I would like to know what the proofs are that the Bible is the Word of God and not something man created to fulfill his own desires and will.
Also, what proofs are there that Paul was inspired and had the authority to make amendments to Jesus's teachings (removing the law from the people), other than his own word that he heard it in a vision.
These questions have remained unanswered to me to this day.
There is no proof. It's faith. But when it comes down to it, it's the same thing for us muslims. Sure, Islam has more intelligent points on its side. Think about how hard it is to prove someone guilty or innocent in court in the U.S. Those are recent events with date/time evidence, tangible evidence, witnesses, and alibis. So, when it comes down to it, there remains faith. You could say that believing in Islam is reasonable faith whereas believing in Christianity (now with more flavor!) is unreasonable.
ReplyDeleteNow a brief something to think about concerning question #2 "what proofs are there that Paul was inspired and had the authority to make amendments to Jesus' teachings (removing the law from the people), other than his own word that he heard it in a vision." Let me first say you are not correct in saying Paul amended Jesus' teachings. Jesus told Peter to eat things that the Mosaic Covenant declared to be unclean. Jesus ate with publican's and sinners. Paul wasn't destroying the law, Paul was teaching what Jesus taught in that we are not bound by the Mosaic Covenant - all that was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. (there is much effort to be put into understanding the two covenants but it is well worth it. It's highly important! So much so that the Bible is divided into the two - Old and New Testament.. testament is derived from the Latin equivalent for covenant). Now, I've been long enough and I appreciate your permitting me to comment, so I will just offer one more thing... and that's concerning Paul. He did more than just say he got something from Jesus. Paul performed miracles. Those were vitally important as the miracles are the things that verified the man. The prophets of the Old Testament did so. It was a sign of authenticity. (It is interesting that Muhammad was asked to perform miracles, yet was unable to do so.) Again, if you read Paul's writings you will see that he doesn't take the law away from the church, but teaches them they are now free to keep the law. Read Romans 2 ( http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Romans+2 ) Does this sound like a man who is telling people not to obey God's law? Pauls was even examined by the disciples that walked with Jesus and they confirmed the doctrine he taught as authentic.
ReplyDeleteIn summary, both your questions are encouraging as you seem to be wanting to find answers. Your first one is a good questions that appears to be seeking truth - and I hope something I said will spur you in that direction. The second one is partly flawed as Paul didn't change what Jesus taught. But the part about more proof is a good one.
May The LORD be gracious to you as you look at these things, and may He open your heart to receive the truth.
Your questions is justifiably asked.
ReplyDeleteA friend pointed this post out to me, and I was intrigued by your question. I am not one to ask someone to accept something on blind faith - for the Bible doesn't ask us to do so either.
And rest easy, as I'm not responding to you thinking I can change your mind instantly, nor am I hoping for a debate. I would, however, like to post a few things for you to mull over in response to your questions... questions which I, although raised in a Christian home, have asked (and wrestled with) myself.
Your first question: "I would like to know what the proofs are that the Bible is the Word of God and not something man created to fulfill his own desires and will." Has a good foundation as truth claims can be power plays. If you have a book and say it is from God (or Allah) then the words it contains bears A LOT of weight. I could cite instances of fulfilled prophecy, and not just about Jesus, but about the destruction of other cities and nations that were not Jewish. (archeology proves these things - for instance the walls of Jericho were discovered all verifying the biblical account, just as it is recorded). But I would rather encourage you to step back, initially, and look at Scripture as a whole. It is different than other holy books in that it didn't fall out of heaven in full. It is a record of history. It records God's works in history. And it is historically verifiable. (Lest you think it has been tampered with.. we have more manuscript evidence for the Scriptures than any other historical document in the world.) It wasn't written by 1 man who could claim to have a handle on God, but by over 40 different men, from different walks of life, over a period of about 1500 years, yet it has continuity. Jeremiah speaks of the same God as Moses yet the two never met each other this side of heaven. Now I will get to Jesus - for HE is the Anchor of it all. He is a historical figure, who has seen, spoken with, and touched both before and after His death. Many of those who claim to have seen Him after His death died because they would not deny what they knew they saw. The life, death, and resurrection are all historically verifiable facts. Jesus validates the Old Testament, and as for the New Testament - it is the result of HIS resurrection. The church grew because of HIM.
There's more on that (I would recommend a book if you would like to study further: "Evidence that demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell)
cont...
Anonymous 1: Thank you for taking the time to comment. I agree that anyone can really play with the proofs and "what if" the argument to death, to the point where we can't even prove our own existence. Oh the glories we can do with the human mind!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 2: The historical proofs are proof to me of the historical content and it does bare some weight. I believe the Bible has some truths that remain in it as it was originally given to us by God. A book from God though does not end in its purpose as a historical text (as I'm sure you agree), and it is meant to provide guidance to the people it came to.
ReplyDelete"The life, death, and resurrection are all historically verifiable facts." - I would tend to agree with the first two. Based on the difference in stories in the Gospels as well, I don't believe we can historically verify the resurrection events and the proofs I have read thus far by Christian intellectuals is not solid.
Thank you for the book suggestion. I just recently finished a book I had been working on for a while, so I requested the one you suggested at the library.
"Jesus told Peter to eat things that the Mosaic Covenant declared to be unclean." - Is this Mark 7:15, 18-19 that you are describing? In this passage, we are talking about clean hands, and not the food that they were injesting. I have notes in The New American Bible that if this was a command for all food to be clean that it was not realized by the Jewish Christians in the early church. I know you didn't come to debate, so I will leave it at that, as I'm sure you're aware of the other points that are available for the side of Jesus keeping the law himself.
I agree that Paul mainly taught to keep with the teachings of God and taught people to act in a manner befitting to people declaring they are working under God's command. I don't pretend to "know" what Paul's motives were nor do I claim that he came to relax everything just for his own pleasure. Some points that I believe he brought to the religion of God that did not exist before him are:
1) Original sin.
2) Worshipping of Jesus as an intermediary.
Now, as we both have points for our belief on either side, I'll leave it as bullet points as not to invoke further discussion if you do not wish for it. :)
Thank you for taking the time to write such a thorough response.
Durriyyah, you got me thinking and then when someone else asked about Paul, I decided to do a post with my reasons for accepting him.
ReplyDeletehttp://susanne430.blogspot.com/2010/06/why-i-like-apostle-paul.html
I hope you and your daughter are enjoying the summer break and that you had a pleasant Memorial Day weekend. :)